Quebec minister in hot seat over charter of values – Montreal – CBC News

Missed this debate between the Minister in charge of selling the Charter, and the philosopher and academic, Gérard Bouchard, who actually has thought considerably about these issues during his long career and his work on the Bouchard-Taylor commission. Quote:

“We took a meticulous look at the practice of accommodations and concluded it was going well,” he said. “You launched yourself into this operation in ignorance of the reality.”

Bouchard repeatedly asked Drainville what studies the government had done to determine that there was a need to restrict its employees’ religious freedoms.

Drainville replied that he had heard from “representatives of teachers, school boards, people working in the health sector” and other employers who didn’t know how to deal with their workers’ requests for religious accommodations and who implored the province to bring in limits.

Quebec minister in hot seat over charter of values – Montreal – CBC News.

In other words, anecdote, not evidence.

And naturally enough, the “battle” of the demonstrations starts (smaller than the one the previous week protesting the Charter):

Manifestation en faveur de la Charte des valeurs à Montréal

And a nuanced analysis of what makes Muslim Canadians wear the hijab, noting the wide variety of practices and beliefs within the community, and that wearing a hijab does not mean that it has been forced by male relatives. Quote:

D’une génération à l’autre, l’islam est souvent vécu de façon différente. « Certaines femmes [plus âgées] ont porté le voile par tradition. Les jeunes sont beaucoup plus dans une recherche spirituelle. On s’approprie la religion et on en fait quelque chose d’individuel. »

Port du voile – Les motifs derrière les apparences

Values Charter: Sovereignists, Amnesty Intl, France

Quiet day. Reflecting the divisions among the sovereignists, those in favour of the Charter are planning their strategy, and aim a cheap shot at Gérard Bouchard:

Des souverainistes pro-Charte se rassemblent à Montréal | Hugo Pilon-Larose | Politique québécoise.

Meanwhile, back to reality with Amnesty International’s public position noting that the proposed Charter limits the fundamental rights of freedom of expression and freedom of religion:

Amnesty International slams Quebec charter for limiting ‘fundamental rights’

And lastly, a good analysis in the Globe about France’s experience with its laicisme approach, including the latest Charter of Secularism at school. The original decision to ban the veil at government schools was subject of considerable discussion and reflection; and was grounded in fears that there was a fair amount of compulsion for teenage girls to wear the hijab (not voluntary). But as these measures are imposed, people opt-out of the government schools, undermining the policy objective of inclusion.

How the French promotion of secularism offers a cautionary lesson for Quebec 

Reaction to Quebec’s values charter

Charte symbolsSo the draft Charte is out with few surprises. Lots of reaction. Starting with what’s in and what’s out:

Would

Bar public sector employees — including everyone from civil servants to teachers, provincial court judges, daycare workers, police, health-care personnel, municipal employees and university staff — from wearing a hijab, turban, kippa, large visible crucifix or other “ostentatious” religious symbols while on the job.

Allow five-year opt-outs from the ban for certain organizations, but not daycare workers or elementary school teachers.

Require that those receiving or providing government services uncover their faces.

Exempt elected members of the Quebec legislature from the regulations.

Amend Quebec’s human rights legislation, the Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, to specify limits on when someone can stake a claim for religious accommodation.

Wouldn’t

Remove religious symbols and elements considered “emblematic of Quebec’s cultural heritage.” That includes: the crucifixes in the Quebec legislature and atop Mount Royal in Montreal, the thousands of religiously based geographic names (e.g. Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!) and the names of schools and hospitals.

Ban public sector employees from wearing small religious symbols like a ring with a Star of David, earrings with the Muslim crescent or a necklace with a small crucifix.

Eliminate subsidies to religious private schools. The Quebec government currently funds about 60 per cent of the budgets of most of the province’s private schools, including parochial ones.

Ban opening prayers at municipal council meetings, which was recommended by the 2008 Bouchard-Taylor Commission report into cultural accommodation. The Quebec Court of Appeal ruled in May that such prayers do not necessarily violate Quebec’s current human rights legislation.

Eliminate property tax exemptions for churches, mosques, synagogues and other religious buildings.

In other words, some of the deeper aspects of multiculturalism, deeper than the rest of Canada, and arguably less integrative like subsidies for religious schools, would remain, while imposing restrictions on public service employees. And will we have a ‘sartorial’ police measuring the size of ‘discrete’ or small religious symbols?

5 things Quebec’s values charter would do, and 5 it wouldn’t – Montreal – CBC News.

Quebec reveals religious symbols to be banned from public sector

Five key consequences of Quebec’s planned Charter of Values

Reaction in Quebec to the proposal is mixed. While Minister Drainville continues to say with a straight face that the Charte aims at harmony, others disagree, particularly in Montreal, where most of the communities live and work together:

Une Charte au nom de l’harmonie, selon Drainville

Signes religieux: la Charte se bute à un écueil

Mairie de Montréal : unanimité contre la charte des valeurs

Signes religieux – Québec fait fausse route, dit la Fédération des femmes

Charte des valeurs québécoises – Réactions mitigées sur la scène politique provinciale

«C’est une Charte contre les femmes»

Federal politicians have pronounced strongly against the proposed Charte. Particularly striking – and courageous given Quebec politics – that both federal leaders from Quebec, Justin Trudeau of the Liberals, and Tom Mulcair, Leader of the Official Opposition and NDP, have been unequivocal in their defence of human rights and freedoms, as has been Minister for Multiculturalism and Economic and Social Development Jason Kenney, speaking on behalf of the government, although as some have noted, he was less expansive than usual.

Given the Ottawa-Quebec dynamics, and the desire by the PQ to play politique identitaire, this may fit into their game plan to create a wedge issue. But irresponsible politics at best.

How Kenney, Mulcair and Trudeau took on Quebec’s charter of values

Tories gear up for constitutional fight as parties unite against PQ’s charter

Le prix de ses principes

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair denounces Quebec’s proposed charter of values

Some other reaction and analysis in English Canada:

De-valued promises in Quebec

Controversial Quebec charter exemptions based on idea that some religious symbols have become purely secular

Charter of Values hints that Quebec having second thoughts over mad dash for immigrants

And an opinion piece in Le Devoir in favour of laicité:

La laïcité, enfin!

And unfortunately behind Le Devoir’s firewall, an opinion piece by Gérard Bouchard, one of the co-authors of the Bouchard-Taylor report, and one of the more thoughtful thinkers on multiculturalism and interculturalisme around. Interview below:

Le sociologue Gérard Bouchard, professeur à l’Université du Québec à Chicoutimi, a codirigé avec le philosophe Charles Taylor de l’Université McGill la Commission de consultation sur les pratiques d’accommodements reliées aux différences culturelles, en 2007-2008. Il juge sévèrement la proposition du gouvernement défendue par le ministre Bernard Drainville pour « répondre au pluralisme religieux dans un état moderne ».

Si le ministre Drainville vous appelait pour vous demander conseil, lequel lui donneriez-vous ?

Je lui dirais que la façon de poser les termes du débat indispose les libertés fondamentales et risque de produire une fracture sociale. C’est donc une mauvaise façon et nous allons nous faire mal. La sagesse consisterait présentement à couper le projet de réforme en deux. Une partie concerne les accommodements et une autre concerne les signes religieux. Sur les signes religieux, visiblement, le Québec n’est pas prêt à se diriger vers un consensus. À mon avis, cette partie du débat sera un échec. Les Québécois seront très, très divisés. Par contre, sur les accommodements, il y a toutes les chances de réaliser un très large consensus parmi l’ensemble des Québécois, la minorité, comme la majorité. Là, à mon avis, il y aurait la possibilité d’en arriver à une loi.

Et tout irait pour le mieux, tout simplement ?

Non. J’ai une autre inquiétude. En parlant des accommodements, le ministre a amplifié toutes les mauvaises perceptions à propos des accommodements. Il a répandu l’idée que les accommodements portaient atteinte régulièrement à l’égalité hommes-femmes. Ce n’est pas vrai. Aucune étude ne soutient ça. Il a aussi répété qu’il y avait une accumulation d’accommodements déraisonnables consentis récemment. Pas de preuve encore. Pas d’études. Rien pour soutenir ça.

Quel autre élément de la proposition vous semble négatif ?

Au cœur de l’affaire, il y a la volonté de s’en prendre à un droit fondamental qui concerne la liberté de manifester sa religion en public, incluant au travail, dans les postes de l’État ou les institutions parapubliques. C’est reconnu comme un droit fondamental par les deux Chartes, canadienne et québécoise, partout en Occident et par l’ONU. Il est permis de supprimer un droit fondamental. Mais il faut alors s’appuyer sur un motif supérieur. Le meilleur exemple au Québec, c’est la loi 101. Elle restreint ou supprime des droits, par exemple en limitant le droit de choisir l’école de ses enfants. Mais il y avait un motif légitime que même la Cour suprême du Canada a reconnu. Je ne trouve pas de motif équivalent dans le cas présent. Il n’y a pas de proportionnalité entre le droit restreint et les motifs évoqués.

Pourquoi est-ce si grave d’interdire des signes religieux aux fonctionnaires ?

Dire que tous les employés de l’État et des organismes parapublics — et ça fait beaucoup — devraient s’abstenir de porter un signe religieux ne tient pas compte de la réalité profonde de certaines croyances. Pour certains croyants, le signe religieux n’est pas dissociable du credo. En se défaisant du signe, le croyant trahit sa foi. C’est pourquoi jamais un sikh ne va retirer son turban au travail. Voilà pourquoi les sociétés doivent trouver des accommodements, dans la mesure où ça ne nuit à personne, sans nuire au travail.

Qu’auriez-vous souhaité alors ?

Charles Taylor et moi, dans notre rapport, nous recommandions l’adoption d’un régime de laïcité au Québec. Il fallait énoncer les grands principes et les justifier. Il fallait énoncer des règles générales de conduite à l’usage des décideurs des institutions. Ce qui a été dévoilé ne fait pas ce travail, ne décrit pas le régime de laïcité qui dirait les rapports entre les religions et les convictions profondes, qui ne sont d’ailleurs pas toutes religieuses, dans notre société. Le gouvernement a tout de suite sauté à des conclusions qui conduisent à la suppression d’un droit fondamental.

Que pensez-vous du droit de retrait de certaines institutions, pour une période allant jusqu’à cinq ans, inclus dans la proposition ?

C’est une affaire difficile à comprendre. Ce droit de retrait se trouve à défaire ce que le projet est censé faire. Premièrement, le problème juridique de fond reste. Deuxièmement, il va en découler une fragmentation juridique du Québec, d’une municipalité à l’autre, d’une université à l’autre. Une jeune étudiante portant le foulard pourra fréquenter tel cégep, mais pas tel autre. C’est assez surprenant. En général, quand l’État statue sur un droit, il le fait pour l’ensemble de la société. Il paraît très étrange de donner aux citoyens la liberté de respecter la loi et des dispositions de la Charte. Troisièmement, cette option donne à la majorité la possibilité de disposer des droits des minorités. On ne peut pas confier la gestion des droits fondamentaux aux humeurs de la majorité. Imaginez où en serait le droit des homosexuels si on fonctionnait comme ça.

​Gérard Bouchard: «Nous allons nous faire mal»

And lastly, some questions for those in favour of the Charte and laicité absolue:

  1. Is this driven by ideology or unconscious prejudice against people with religious beliefs?
  2. Do you assume greater competence among public servants without religious symbols than those with?
  3. Do you view the wearing of a cross as purely secular or not?
  4. When being treated at a hospital, taking a child to day care or school, or getting on a bus, what assumptions do you make regarding someone wearing a cross, kippa, turban, hijab or other symbol?
  5. Is the issue competence or appearance? Comfort or discomfort?

As someone who has been in and out of hospital for more time than I would like to remember, and has been treated with a variety of doctors and nurses, some with religious symbols, some without, competence trumps appearance and I have not been disappointed. Yesterday, it was a nurse wearing a hijab that did my regular blood work; and it was one of the more painless pokes in recent memory.

Charte des valeurs québécoises – Round-up

On the morning the draft Charte will be revealed, the usual round-up of articles. While it appears the main direction has not changed – banning religious signs in all government-funded workplaces, implementation periods and renewal derogations will be allowed. Another layer of bureaucracy, another way to keep the politique identitaire a public issue, and another way for Quebec to avoid coming to terms with diversity, interculturalisme, and expressions of faith. And sad that the government is not going back to the more nuanced and moderate laïcité ouverte of the Bouchard-Taylor Commission.

However, delaying implementation of a bad law does not make it good.

Charte des valeurs québécoises – À peine connue, déjà contestée | Le Devoir.

Le mieux et le bien

Parti Québécois to unveil secular charter Tuesday

And a naive article on the implications for Charter challenges:

Vers des exceptions à la Charte des valeurs

And divisions among the membership of one of the teacher’s unions, the Fédération autonome de l’enseignement (FAE), not surprising but illustrative of Québec public opinion:

Laïcité – La position de la FAE décriée

An opinion piece by Lucia Ferretti, largely favourable to the proposed approach, and noting how embedded religion is in society, whether the schooling system in Québec (government-financed faith-based schools unlike Ontario, NGOs). He neglects the human rights element of freedom of religion, which includes, of course, Catholics in Québec, whether secularized or traditional, whether progressive or traditional (like other religions):

Charte des valeurs québécoises – Séparation oui, neutralité, non

And a good piece by Bruce Anderson on how motives, and how they are perceived, can help a policy initiative sink or swim:

 Bruce Anderson: For Marois’s charter, voters will judge the motives 

And some good profiles in the Globe from a range of Québécois:

Five Quebeckers weigh in on the proposed secular charter

Sheema Khan reinforces her ongoing message:

Institutions should reflect local best practices, where discourse, debate and inclusion of stakeholders set the tone. Currently, most Muslim institutions are replicas of their foreign counterparts, with a top-down approach in which the voices of women and youth are often absent.

We need intelligent, dispassionate discussions of how Western principles, such as gender equality, freedom of conscience, freedom of expression and critical inquiry, meld with overarching Islamic principles.

Civic engagement will also be paramount for future integration, as Muslims participate in wider policy issues, such as the environment, energy security, aboriginal self-assertion and, yes, Quebec identity.

In classical Islamic thought, the overriding principle of the faith was understood to be mercy. It was manifest by the intent to do good to others, to bring benefit to the wider society and to prevent harm. It is a principle worth resurrecting as Muslims establish roots here.

Reconciling Muslim practices with Western principles

Marois urged to apologize over ‘terrible’ remarks – Round up

A whole series of articles on Quebec Premier Marois’ ongoing effort to fan the flames and, in the process, making her look more ignorant on multiculturalism, interculturalisme, and common sense approaches to diversity. Will not comment on each – too painful. Fortunately, lots of highly critical comment and debate in Quebec press.

Pauline Marois au Devoir – L’étapisme pour la Charte des valeurs (the interview that started it all)

Marois urged to apologize over ‘terrible’ remarks linking multiculturalism and violence | National Post.

 Marois blasts multiculturalism in defence of ‘values’ charter

Marois blames multiculturalism for violence in England – Montreal | Globalnews.ca

Multiculturalisme: Marois dit qu’elle ne voulait pas choquer | Politique québécoise

 

Paul Wells of Macleans remarking on just how limited her experience outside the Quebec bubble is, and how  ‘drinking the Kool-aid’ makes such comments possible:

Pauline Marois: Protecting Quebec against the fate of England

And the ever sensible Chantal Hébert:

PQ debate on values bringing irreconcilable differences to the surface: Hébert

And beyond the silly, some serious discussion, starting with PLQ leader Couillard:

Multiculturalisme: Marois doit s’excuser, croit Philippe Couillard

​Philippe Couillard prône la neutralité religieuse de l’État, mais pas celle des individus | Le Devoir

Quebec Liberals would enshrine religious neutrality of the state in charter

And from LSE professor Grégoire Webber:

Charte des valeurs québécoises – Où sont les bombes, Madame Marois?

And some analysis by Philippe Authier to round-up the round-up:

Why PQ has us on a values roller-coaster

Probably more that what my readers want, but given the details should come out this week, good to capture the tenor of the comments and debate.

Charte des valeurs – Conflit en vue entre Québec et les enseignants | Le Devoir

Some interesting comment on the potential impact on education of the proposed Charter of values, starting with the teachers, who favour laïcité  ouverte, and respect for their members:

Selon lui, l’État ne doit pas interdire le port de vêtements ou d’accessoires à connotation religieuse ou culturelle, car c’est le droit au travail qui est en jeu. « On considère qu’il est normal qu’un enseignant ou une enseignante porte la kippa juive, porte la croix ou le hidjab », a-t-il dit lors d’une conférence de presse où la FAE a dévoilé ses positions adoptées à son congrès de juin. « Peut-on convertir les élèves du simple fait de porter une croix dans le cou ? On pense que non. »

Charte des valeurs – Conflit en vue entre Québec et les enseignants | Le Devoir.

And in English, the Fédération autonome d’enseignement — which represents about 32,000 teachers, or a third of teachers in Quebec, notes the real issue is public financing of private religious schools, not the wearing of religious signs (and Ontario rejected that approach in a provincial election a number of years ago):

If Quebec really wants to secularize education, it should stop funding religious schools, union says

Quebec Values Charter Round-up

A bit of a longer round-up today.

Starting with Lysiane Gagnon in the Globe:

In Quebec, as in France, secularism often serves as a screen for plain xenophobia. Marine Le Pen, leader of France’s far-right Front National, constantly invokes the tradition of laïcité to justify anti-immigrant policies. In Quebec, the discovery of the concept dates from around 2007, coinciding with the rise of Muslim immigration and a few incidents involving unreasonable demands by fundamentalists.

Quebec wants secularism – for some – The Globe and Mail.

And Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne weighs into the debate:

Asked directly about the Quebec proposal, Wynne said her government will continue to promote diversity in its policies and practices.

“Respecting that diversity, being inclusive and finding the shared Canadian values that we all believe in, that’s what our strength is as a province, so that’s how I will proceed,” she said.

“Other provinces, you know, will make their decisions, but I see our strength as our diversity.”

Ontario’s premier criticizes Quebec’s secular charter, says diversity is strength

And Nahid Nenshi, Mayor of Calgary, continues to play one of the strongest roles in commenting on the negative aspects of the Charter:

‘What we’re looking at under this charter of secularism is intolerance. Plain and simple,’ Calgary’s mayor said, continuing his criticism

Nenshi calls PQ ‘values’ charter ‘social suicide,’ suggests that upset Quebecers move to Calgary and

Calgary’s mayor gives PQ a refreshing blast of mockery over xenophobic ‘values’ plan

And a reminder about the likely real goal of the PQ in proposing the Charter, using wedge politics to support another referendum:

Quebec’s Marois eyeing another sovereignty referendum

While PM Marois helps create a less welcoming, inclusive society with the Charter, she of course also denounces the recent vandalism, likely a hate crime, of the Mosque in Saguenay, but in Montreal, not with a visit:

Marois dénonce le vandalisme commis sur une mosquée de Saguenay

But Muslim Québécois are understandably worried about how the Charter may feed such intolerance and encourage more vandalism and hate crimes, even if other parts of the country also suffer from such incidents:

Des musulmans craignent une montée de l’intolérance

And on a more encouraging note, and broadening the discussion beyond Muslim Canadians, Mindy Pollack, a 24-year-old Hasidic woman is running for municipal office to reach the divide between Hasidic Jews and their neighbours. A reminder that the issue is participation and integration with the broader community that counts:

“It’s really revolutionary,” Ms. Pollak said. “But if we focus on what we have in common rather than what divides us, then we can work toward solutions.”

 Montreal candidate aims to bridge divide between city and its Hasidic heartland 

And lastly, a somewhat confused article by Tahir Gora on what is included in multiculturalism or not, i.e., whether it is deep multiculturalism, with parallel institutions and rights, or shallow multiculturalism, with all living under the same legal system and Canadian and other charters. The Canadian version is the latter, although every now and then, people will push the limits (as we all do in a democracy). The key point is to maximize the common space for all, and whether one wears a kippa, turban or hijab is less important that being with, and interacting with, others of different or no faith

Would Quebec be Able to Deliver True Multiculturalism?

Quebec’s values debate is revealing – Articles

Starting with a highly critical commentary by Andrew Cohen, arguing that the debate reflects Quebec as an “adolescent” society, then progressing to criticize the federal leaders, save Justin Trudeau, for not taking a strong stand.

Quebec likes to think it looks to Europe. If so, it is becoming less like Europe as a social democracy and more like Europe as an anxious democracy, worried about the challenges of diversity.

Quebec’s values debate is revealing.

In Le Devoir, Jean-Claude Leclerc, provides some useful history to Quebec’s ongoing sensitivity to religion and the other, and is equally critical of the proposed approach:

Personne ne va monter aux barricades au nom du principe de la séparation de l’Église et de l’État. Et surtout, à quoi une autre déclaration sur l’égalité entre les sexes pourrait-elle bien s’appliquer, alors qu’il s’agit, en l’occurrence, d’inégalité visant d’abord et avant tout des femmes. Plus souvent victimes de violence. Plus nombreuses à vivre dans la pauvreté. À devoir se faire proches aidants. Et bien sûr à être encore sous-représentées dans les institutions de l’État, à commencer par l’Assemblée nationale.

Entre-temps, d’aucuns se demanderont sans doute en quoi l’État qui exclut l’Église de la définition des valeurs peut prétendre imposer les siennes à toute une société.

Laïcité et valeurs québécoises – De Maurice Duplessis à Pauline Marois

And another, shorter historical perspective, from Stéphane Baillargeon of Le Devoir, going back five years to the Bouchard-Taylor Commission, noting just how lively the debate is, and while the media plays a role in heightening the issue, the media is also responding to popular concerns.

Charte des valeurs québécoises – Brûler pour ne pas s’éteindre

Nenshi to Quebeckers: Come to Calgary, we don’t care how you worship – The Globe and Mail

Many of originally from Toronto have Mayor envy, and here is another illustration why Mayor Nenshi continues to show leadership on a wide range of issues, unlike the sadness of Toronto’s Rob Ford.

Nenshi to Quebeckers: Come to Calgary, we don’t care how you worship – The Globe and Mail.

And Konrad Yakabuski notes the masterful political, cynical and polarizing game of identity politics played by PQ Premier Marois as she tries to create winning conditions for the next election by uniting the “progressive” secularists” in the cities and the conservative traditionalists in the hinterland. Sad if it works.

 Marois plays a masterful game of identity politics 

Charte des valeurs québécoises – Round-up

While irresponsible and playing to xenophobia, seems to be working politically for the PQ, particularly among francophones. Early days, and we will see how the debates and discussions play out, but not encouraging.

Sondage Léger-Le Devoir – La Charte relance le PQ | Le Devoir.

A strong opinion piece in Le Devoir by a group of academics noting the exclusionary nature of the proposed Charter:

Nous sommes fiers de l’héritage culturel et politique distinct du Québec. Cet héritage inclut la Charte québécoise des droits et libertés de la personne, qui garantit déjà les droits individuels, notamment l’égalité entre les hommes et les femmes ainsi que la liberté de conscience. D’ailleurs, ces principes sont plus que des « valeurs » subjectives : ils forment des impératifs de justice. Il est désolant que le gouvernement tente de porter atteinte à ces impératifs à des fins électorales en attisant des tensions […]. Nous attendons plutôt de nos décideurs qu’ils se fassent les porteurs d’une vision s’appuyant sur notre héritage dans l’élaboration de politiques publiques justes, inclusives et ambitieuses.

Charte des valeurs québécoises – Une mauvaise réponse à un faux problème

And general commentary in The Toronto Star about the Charter, origins and likely impact:

In Quebec, religious ‘accommodations’ debate heats up

And good commentary by Doug Saunders of the Globe and Mail, noting just how counterproductive an approach to integration such a Charter represents:

Worse, though: If we take seriously the goal of eradicating religion from public life, this is a terrible approach. Any smart politician knows that the way to get voters to switch sides is not to insult them for having the stupidity to support the other party. It’s to make your side seem welcoming. This applies doubly in the battle against religious authority: We’re not going to convert people by humiliating and enraging them.

And the non-confrontation approach is working – fantastically so. The past 10 years saw the proportion of Canadians without religion rise by more than 50 per cent, to a quarter of the population; the same is happening in every developed country.

We didn’t make this progress by insulting the religious; rather, we got here by tolerating them and making secular reason appear the more moral and humane option. … The way to win an argument is not by ordering your opponents to shut up. It’s by getting them on your side.

 Quebec’s slapdash bid for secularism doesn’t even work