ATIP Delay Log

For those interested in just how long and convoluted the ATIP process is, see my detailed log dating from January 2013.

I finally received the material 5 August 2014, with some redactions.


ATIP File: A-2012-20662


Email ATIP Officer




25 Jan Email ATIP OfficerSuggest breaking up request, focus on C&M files
Email ATIP OfficerClarification on International Strategy document (draft or final)
26 Jan Email A. GriffithGuidance on priorities:“No issue with breaking it up by year. I would prefer to have the CitMulti files first, even though I recognize the burden this may place on the group. From a fee perspective, propose whatever you think is most consistent with your regular practise and advise me the best way to transfer the funds (not sure I can customize the amount on the online payment system).

In terms of helping people decide on which versions of documents, my interest lies in capturing how the policy and program evolved. Some possible suggestions how to capture this are:

documents discussed at policy committee 

documents discussed at ExComm

documents sent to Minister (e.g., notes) or discussed at Ministerial briefing

For multi G&C renewal, the main renewal was in 2010 when G&Cs changed to a CFP process and a new ‘Events’ stream. Any older files on the change in priorities from 2007-08 (PCH days) would also be appreciated. The ppt chart comparing authorized amounts and expenditures was done around 2009 I believe.”

Email A. GriffithReply to International Strategy clarification question Successive drafts at international strategy committee
28 Jan Email ATIP OfficerSuggest C&M files only as request 1, request 2 dealing with other branches
Email A. GriffithConfirm splitting up into request 1 and 2 acceptable, comment on examples
Email ATIP OfficerPoints out possible confusion on examples – first item p 4
Email A. Griffith“Use your best judgement”
Email ATIP OfficerDocument attached outlining what is to be included in request 1 (56 items)
Email A. GriffithProvides comments on ATIP list with clarification, adds about 7-8 items
29 Jan Email ATIP Officer“sounds good”, going on leave, Thierry back-up
Email A. Griffith“enjoy your holidays”
Email ATIP Officer“thanks”
5 Mar Email ATIP OfficerConfirm assumptions on type of documentsSuggest request only 5-10 documents at a time
Email A. GriffithOk with 5-10 documents at a time, request getting related documents together
Email ATIP OfficerOK with splitting them up by subject Go ahead with first 9 items
Email A. GriffithConfirm organized by group, first 9 fine
Email ATIP Officer“sounds like a plan”
19 Mar Email ATIP OfficerOnly 5 of 9 items found – missing ones:“Item #1 – Ministerial Briefing for Secretary of State, March 1st, 2007 (not available for the date)

Item #2 – Ministerial Briefing for Secretary of State, October 2008 (not available for the date range)

Item #3 – CIC Briefing Book, May 2011:  Ministerial Briefing on Citizenship and Multiculturalism (not available in the date range)

Item #5 – Ministerial Briefing Deck for CIC DMC November-December 2008 (not available in the date range)”

20 Mar Email A. GriffithClarification whether 4 missing was because of datesSuggest more efficient to proceed with next group on list rather than holding up everything for these 4
Email ATIP OfficerOpposite – 4 not foundBetter to finish with this batch and then open new file number for next batch
21 Mar Email A. Griffith“surprised some not found”, provide additional info on missing docs
27 Mar Email ATIP Officer“second look” 3 additional items locatedFlagged possible delays if PCO-related item. Recalls 1 reference dating from 2010 “should not be an issue”
Email A. Griffith“thanks for update”
2 Apr Email ATIP OfficerRequire in both OL?
Email A. GriffithEnglish fine
24 Apr Email A. GriffithRequest for next batch:No 8, 9: Historical recognition decks and briefing notes on changed approach to CHRP, NHRP

Nos 10, 12: C-302, First World War Internment Fund

Nos 15-16: Funding data table and graph multi C&Cs, CAPAR/Racism/Discrimination

No 24: metropolis – deck presented at Public Safety workshop

No 25: Radicalization/social cohesion notes and decks

No 30: Interculturalism/multi slides

No 42: Discover Canada versions and briefing notes

No 43: citizenship language requirements and testing

No 51: Citizenship Modernization Agenda and Initiatives

No 51, 52: C-37 briefing notes etc, Generation limits

No ??: Monthly and, if available, annual citizenship test results and analysis

No 56: ‘birth babies’ or birth tourism, issues related to citizenship by birth

Email ATIP OfficerUpdate earlier file – Director’s office for sign-offAgree to make above list priority for next batch (rather than items 10-18)

Request for $50 (10 additional requests)

Email A. GriffithQuestion re fees
Email ATIP OfficerConfirmation of $50New ATIP Number provided
Email A. GriffithProblem re on-line payment of $50
Email ATIP OfficerConfirmation payment by cheque rather than on-line
Email A. GriffithCheque to RGC?
Email ATIP OfficerYes
Email A. GriffithCheque will be mailed today (24 April)
25 Apr Email ATIP OfficerAcknowledge  request A-2013-01931, confirmation shifted to 12 documents mentioned above
29 Apr Email ATIP OfficerRelease for 2012 request confirmed May 2
Email A. GriffithRequest documents by email rather than CD
Email ATIP OfficerToo large by email
Email A. GriffithSplit up or by USB key?
30 Apr Email ATIP OfficerNeed to run by manager
2 May Email ATIP OfficerNot possible, only via CD or paper
Email A. GriffithPrefer CD
16 May Email A. GriffithConfirmation CD received and following comments/questions:“Comparing the material received to my request (first 9 items), I find:

Ministerial Briefing for SoS Feb 2007 – only item provided is on 2005-06 Annual Report briefing deck, no ministerial briefing book provided

Ministerial Briefing for SoS Oct 2008 – no material provided, apart from non-relevant material on Universal Periodic Review, FPT Human Rights Process, Winding down of Court challenges program

CIC briefing book May 2011 – Ministerial briefing on C & M – no material provided

Multiculturalism Briefing Deck for SoS Feb-Mar 2007 – not provided

Multiculturalism Briefing Deck for CIC DMC Nov-Dec 2008 – staff version provided

Standard Multi Briefing Deck winter 2011 – provided

Standard SO3 Deck used for foreign delegations – provided

Standard C&M Decks – included in other material, provided

Metropolis 2010 Constitutional Framework Deck Oct 2010 – provided

In addition, a House Card on the multi storyline was provided (which responds to #15 as it includes a data table).

So the main gap is the absence of the standard ministerial briefing material in 2007, 2008 and 2011. Is this because the material was not located, or because of a broad interpretation of exemption of all such briefing material, rather than releasing with key recommendations and advice redacted as appropriate?”

23 May Email ATIP Officer“Cit & Multi had advised me of the following, which is below.    There is one items that was not addressed though, item #4.  I’ll follow up with them on that one. Item #1 – Ministerial Briefing for Secretary of State, March 1st, 2007 (not available for the date)

Item #2 – Ministerial Briefing for Secretary of State, October 2008 (not available for the date range)

Item #3 – CIC Briefing Book, May 2011:  Ministerial Briefing on Citizenship and Multiculturalism (not available in the date range)”

Email A. GriffithQuestion: Too narrow a date range?Flagged $50 cheque not cashed
Email ATIP OfficerDate range OK – can extend in futureCheque seen – will check why not cashed
24 May Email A. GriffithAsk estimated time for next batch of documents
Email ATIP OfficerDocs just received“I took a quick peek but I will need to get them scanned and if there are documents from other departments, I’d need to consult them and take an extension.    Even though the extension might look long (60 days), we normally are in a position to respond before then.”
Email ATIP OfficerFormal email:“This is further to your request under the Access to Information Act, which was received on April 23, 2013, for the following:

-“12 various policy and program related material for the citizenship and multiculturalism programs”

Despite our best efforts to process your request within the 30-day statutory limit, an extension of up to 60 days pursuant to paragraph 9(1)(b) of the Access to Information Act, is required.  This paragraph states that an extension may be taken where “consultations are necessary to comply with the request that can not reasonably be completed within the original time limit”.”

17 Jun Email A. GriffithAsking whether docs on track or not
Email ATIP Officer“As for your latest request, an extension was taken on May 23rd as we have to consult other departments as they are mentioned in this batch of documents.   The due date for the response on file 1931 is now July 22nd.  As well, I noticed there may be some PCO related ones in there and if so, a longer extension might be required.  We have a meeting later this week as there has been some sort of change with regards to how we handle these documents, the normal response time from PCO was 6-9 months.   I’ll have a better idea of what’s in store shortly.”
Email A. Griffith‘Churlish’ email complaining of slippage.“The timelines seem to be slipping (I keep on setting bf dates based on your info). If there are any documents of this batch that are quicker to process than the others, I would appreciate it, as I also have some timelines that I am trying to work towards. 

Not shooting the messenger and understand the constraints you are operating under .…”

15 July Email A. GriffithAsked for update given promised 22 July
Email ATIP OfficerHi Andrew, I’ll look further into your file this week and see where we’re at. We’re in a bit of flux here as we are several people down and one of my colleagues (Thierry Terracol) is now our Acting Manager, so we’ve had to take over his files as well. The issue with some of the recent stuff you’ve requested is that it is so recent, like the Citizenship by Birth on Soil (August 2012) so there are some consultations I am still awaiting feedback on. 

On the bright side, I think I can send you the Discover Canada material immediately. This is just off the top of my head, I’ll look at it a bit deeper later. 

22 July Email A. GriffithAs mentioned earlier, I would appreciate clarification on exactly which of the documents requested under #A-2013-01931 will be made available this week as per your extension notification of May 24. The request list included (my email 24 April) – and I have made some notes on my take on what should be releasable:No 8, 9: Historical recognition decks and briefing notes on changed approach to CHRP, NHRP – OLD FILES

Nos 10, 12: C-302, First World War Internment Fund – OLD FILES

Nos 15-16: Funding data table and graph multi C&Cs, CAPAR/Racism/Discrimination – FUNDING DATA LARGELY RELEASED UNDER CBC ATIP

No 24: metropolis – deck presented at Public Safety workshop – OLD FILE 2010

No 25: Radicalization/social cohesion notes and decks – FILES DATE FROM 2008 – 2011

No 30: Interculturalism/multi slides – OLD FILES 2011

No 42: Discover Canada versions and briefing notes – OLD FILES

No 43: citizenship language requirements and testing – OLD FILES

No 51: Citizenship Modernization Agenda and Initiatives – LARGELY OLD FILES

No 51, 52: C-37 briefing notes etc, Generation limits – OLD FILES RELATED TO C-37 (2010), PLUS 2011 SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIALS

No ??: Monthly and, if available, annual citizenship test results and analysis – LARGELY COVERED IN CBC ATIP RELEASE OF OPERATIONAL BULLETIN 

No 56: ‘birth babies’ or birth tourism, issues related to citizenship by birth – SOME EARLY NOTES FROM 2010 AND LIKELY 2011 WHICH SHOULD NOT REQUIRE THE FURTHER REVIEW OF 2012

A comprehensive indication of what I will receive (and most of the docs requested are comparable to DC in terms of age) would be most appreciated.

ATIP OfficerHi Andrew,   I’m sending you the Discovery Canada documents today – they are publicly available and normally we would advise the requestors of this, but seeing it was provided to me in this format, I can send them directly.As for the others, there were documents that we needed to consult other departments on, including TBS and DOJ.    Once I receive a response from them, then I can review their comments/concerns.
Email A. GriffithTimeline please?
ATIP OfficerSorry,  I can’t provide/predict that.  When I get back the response from the other departments, I should have a better indication.  The ones we consulted on normally have decent turnaround times.  
Email A.GriffithThe process is broken. From a client service perspective, you can’t commit to a date, advise an extension, and then come back with such a vague response. Managing expectations is key to client service. I don’t want to file a complaint – I have more important things to do with my life – but almost have to given how poor the process is. 

Please make sure your director is aware of my concerns, even if I know the issue is likely above him or her. 

ATIP OfficerWe try to meet our deadlines the best we can, and we deal with each request the best we can.  You have asked for 102 documents.   We could have gone the route of asking for application fees for each of those.  Instead, we opted to go the route of asking for $50.00 and we would split the request into sections.     If we had gone the original route, the main branch would have come back with a large search fee estimate and a possible extension of over 300 days would have been taken.  I can only commit to a release date once the review is complete and it’s gone thru the Approval process.   

I will make my Manager aware of your concerns.

23 July Email A. GriffithAlthough I hate to have to do a ‘for the record’ mail, I do need to point out that my issue is not with respect to your good suggestion to split the request into sections. It was helpful, made sense, and was discussed openly and transparently.My issue was with respect to the second ‘batch’ or request, #A-2013-01931, where I am concerned about the process, delays and lack of clarity of what will be provided and when.

I understand the constraints you operate under, as well as your unit and government ATIP, so these comments are not directed at you personally. 

Hope this clarifies our latest exchange.

11 Aug Email A. GriffithFurther to our last exchange, I noticed the following article in The National Post this weekend:‘Birth tourists’ believed to be using Canada’s citizenship laws as back door into the West | National Post

As this refers to my request No 56 on the original list (and number 12 of my short list): (‘birth babies’ or birth tourism, issues related to citizenship by birth) bit perplexed that these early documents are still subject to review when 2013 consultation documents have been publicly released.

Grateful any clarification you can provide.

12 Aug ATIP OfficerThis might change something when it comes to the time of review, definitely good to have this reference on hand,  thanks.   Records are gathered at the time of the request and yes, their possible release does get affected by items that are now publicly available.However, I am still awaiting feedback from two departments on a total of 25 pages.    These pages are not related to the Birth tourist topic. 


25 May 2014 ATIP OfficerOur last exchange was in January, some 4 months ago.Any news on the outstanding batch?

Lastly, you will recall that I paid $50 dollars for what we thought would be a series of ATIP requests. Since I have cancelled the remainder, as per the email below, please issue of refund of $45 to cover the no-longer required documents.

I would appreciate your confirmation of this message.

Hi Andrew, Sorry, I was unexpectedly away for a bit,   just back in the office today.A refund will be issued for the other documents. 

I’ve asked my Manager for an update on this file as I submitted it to her for approval some time ago.    

2 Responses to ATIP Delay Log

  1. Pingback: Outstanding ATIP Request Documents Now Available | Multicultural Meanderings

  2. Pingback: Liberals push Access to Information overhaul back to 2018 | Multicultural Meanderings

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